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Thursday, January 26, 2017

More on EZ Battery Reconditioning

What they don't imply

One thing to note about EZ Battery Reconditioning. You won't find the claim to be "how to find good batteries that people throw away. I'm sure that wouldn't sell as well.

A claim like: 

"Bringing Dead Batteries Back To Life Is Simple!"



is a great deal more enticing because getting good batteries that people throw away is a lot harder than getting dead batteries that people throw away.

But I'm going to guess, without having read the book, that a lot of the secret is to get batteries that people don't want anymore and check to see if they are really no good or if they can still be used.


What I think they might suggest

With a simple voltmeter, one can check a non-rechargeable battery. That's how the battery testers do it. If an alkaline battery is over 1.5V, it's probably good. If a non-rechargeable lithium battery is over 3.0V, it's probably good. If a silver oxide battery is over 1.55V, it probably has enough life left to be considered good.

But NONE of that is "bringing dead batteries back to life.

One might even check a battery to see if it is good "under load", which is a better test. But how much load should one put on a non-rechargeable battery for how long for it to be considered good? I could go into that because it isn't that complicated, but it's not dead simple. It will be a good topic for a future post.

But back to our EZ Battery Reconditioning people.


What they do imply

They imply that dead rechargeable batteries can be brought back to life. Non-rechargeable batteries can only be brought back to life under certain conditions, but we've found that even under the best conditions it still isn't worth it. What I mean is that alkaline batteries CAN be recharged, but they are much weaker after it is done, and they don't recharge enough times to go to the trouble.

Please note: they use the words "Long Life" and "Alkaline" on their website. Here's the screenshot:




And they use the word "Recondition" to top it all off. So if they mean there are chargers to recharge alkaline batteries, well, I suppose you might still be able to find one. But "long life" batteries are more commonly known as carbon zinc or zinc chloride. And these cannot be reconditioned. Again, though, there is a little wiggle room with the terminology seeing as someone could always say that "long life" just means any battery should have a good long life.


What I really think is inside the alleged "guide"

They probably tell you about a few tricks that are no secret in the battery industry. We've tried these before with RARE success. Here is the list:
  • For lead acid batteries, add some Epsom salt to de-sulfate the plates
  • For NiCd batteries, a cell can be "zapped" with 10x voltage to burn off any internal shorts
  • For NiCd batteries again, if they have life but one wants to try and revive them to a better life; cycle them a few times with a deep discharge to about .2V per cell
Please note: When a lithium battery wears out, there is no getting it back. This is true for any lithium chemistry. It's also true for NiMH chemistry.

Tentative Conclusion
I doubt it.

They claim in their video that "any" battery can be reconditioned. They claim in thier screenshot that lithium batteries, which are what laptop batteries are, can be reconditioned. They claim NiMH batteries can be reconditioned in their list, as well.

I don't think it's possible.

I'm going to look into it further, but I don't think my conclusion will be proved wrong.

Tuesday, January 24, 2017

How do they get away with it?

So I was looking at this battery reconditioning site. They sell an e-book that supposedly tells people how to restore their spent batteries to "100% of their working condition."

There might be a little wiggle room in there that "working condition" is not "new condition." However, they do claim that batteries using this guide will be in "new" condition in the video.

I began to look on the web to find people that had tried the guide and reviewed it. But there was no-one. I'm sure people will point to all the review sites listed for this process, but they are all sites that also get money if the guide sells from that site. They are all thinly veiled sales sites at best, and have nothing to do with reviewing the product.

So how are they doing it? How do they make such bold claims that would certainly be worth the $27-$47 it is selling for on various sites and yet no independent party has reviewed the claims?

I'll keep looking at this and write more about it as I find out more.

But just to give you an idea of the claims, take a look at these:
The EZ Battery Reconditioning™ course is the easy to follow, step-by-step system anyone can use to recondition all kinds of old or dead batteries with just simple supplies you probably already have in your home.

The course is made up of step-by-step guides that show you how to recondition each type of battery. And each guide is full of pictures and diagrams so you not only read exactly what to do …you see exactly what to do as well!

It’s like having me and Frank (aka "The Battery Man") standing there with you, guiding you every step of the way as you recondition your batteries.

And it doesn’t matter if you’re not technical or don’t know the first thing about batteries …because our course is incredibly easy to follow and absolutely anybody can use it.

I'm looking at links and videos, and perhaps I'll even give them some money just to make an honest review of my own.

Friday, January 20, 2017

VRLA Battery Guide

Zbattery published this very nice information on VRLA batteries. Take time to comment on the guide and we'll update it with the latest information.

Valve Regulated Lead Acid (VRLA) Batteries are low maintenance sealed lead-acid batteries. They limit inflow and outflow of gas to the cell – thus the term “valve regulated”. VRLA batteries are unique due to the fact that they contain a “starved” electrolyte (acid), which is absorbed or immobilized in a separator.
Electrolytes are commonly absorbed or immobilized in two ways:
Absorbed electrolyte: a highly porous mat made from microglass fibers is partially filled with electrolyte, acting as a separator. Also called AGM for Absorbed Glass Mat.
Gelled electrolyte: Fumed silica is hardened into a gel that free-floats in its container. During charges, the gel dries more creating cracks and fissures develop between the positive and negative. Often referred to as Gel Cell.
Advantages:
·         Maintenance-free
·         Moderate Life
·         High-rate capacity
·         High charge efficiency
·         No “memory effect”
·         State of charge can be determined by measuring voltage
·         Relatively low cost
·         Available in a variety of sizes and voltages from single cell units (2V) to 48V or higher
Disadvantages 
·         Cannot be stored in discharged condition
·         Relatively low-energy density
·         Lower cycle than NiCad batteries
·         Thermal runaway can occur with incorrect charging or improper thermal management
·         More sensitive to temperatures than conventional lead-acid batteries
According to BatteryUniversity.com, “heat reduces the life of VRLA. Most batteries are enclosed in spaces without proper ventilation or cooling. Every 8°C (15°F) rise in temperature cuts the battery life in half. A VRLA battery, which would last for 10 years at 25°C (77°F), will only be good for 5 years if operated at 33°C (95°F). Once damaged by heat, no remedy exists to improve capacity.”
Simple Guidelines 
·         Always store in a charged condition. Never allow the open cell voltage to drop below 2.10V. Apply a topping charge every six months or when recommended.
·         Avoid repeated deep discharges. Charge more often.
·         Prevent sulfation and grid corrosion by choosing the correct charge and float voltages. If possible, allow a fully saturated charge of 14h.
·         To reverse sulfation, raise the charge voltage above 2.4V per cell for a few hours.
·         Avoid operating lead-acid at elevated ambient temperatures.
VRLA Uses:
·         Fork Lifts
·         Uninterruptible Power Supplies
·         Emergency Lighting
·         Wheelchairs
·         Telecom Back-Up Power Supplies
·         Lawn and Garden Tools
·         Engine Starters

Thursday, January 19, 2017

Equalizing Battery Packs

Many battery packs are made up of individual battery cells. When batteries are purchased to be made into a pack it is a good idea to equalize the charge on the batteries before building the pack.

Equalizing the batteries is nothing more than ensuring the voltage on each cell is within a very close range at the same state of charge (i.e. fully charged).

If you do not equalize the batteries properly before building a pack, the charge and discharge cycles will be harder on some of the cells and will effectively shorten their life. Once a cell fails the entire pack will be weaker because of the one defunct cell.

There are a couple of ways to equalize a set of batteries:

The first way is to connect the set that will go in the pack in a parallel configuration. Leave them in this state for at least 24 hours. The cells that have a higher charge will charge the ones with a lower charge and they will all equalize.

The second way is to put them in a parallel configuration again, but charge them together at 1.4V, current limited to total capacity divided by 40 (e.g. 3000mAh/40 => 75mA current limit). This may be faster than equalizing via the previously mentioned parallel method and you will start with a charged set of cells when you make the pack. Be sure to have an accurate voltmeter to check the charge voltage.

See some common Batteries used to make packs.

Monday, January 16, 2017

Battery Recycling 101

The articles on Zbattery.com included information about recycling. Except for the RBRC link which changed, it is up-to-date:

With so many batteries available, it is often difficult to know how they should be properly disposed; can you toss it in the normal household garbage, or should it be taken to a hazardous waste location? 
Everyday batteries include: 
Alkaline Batteries (flashlights, calculators, toys, smoke alarms, clocks, etc.) are classified as non-hazardous waste by the federal government. Most U.S. states, with the exception of California, can include with their normal household waste. California requires disposal of these batteries in accordance with the California Universal Waste Rules.
Button Batteries (watches, hearing aids, toys, greeting cards, remote controls, etc.) come in a variety of materials. They often contain mercury, silver, or lithium, and should be returned to the manufacturer when purchasing a new battery. Alkaline button batteries and zinc/air can be disposed of with normal household waste.
Li-Ion Batteries (laptops, camcorders, cell phones, etc.) are classified by the federal government as non-hazardous waste, however they can be recycled.
NiMH Batteries (power tools, camera, cell phones, computers, etc.) are rechargeable and can be recycled. NiMH are considered a non-hazardous waste in most U.S. States, with the exception of California. Check the California Universal Waste Rules. 
NiCad Batteries (power tools, camera, cell phones, computers, etc.) are recyclable. NiCad is considered a hazardous waste by the U.S. government, and should be brought to a recycling facility.
Wet Cell Lead Acid Batteries, (automotives and tractors) also known as flooded batteries can be recycled at most retailers that sell lead-acid batteries. 
AGM Lead Acid Batteries, (wheelchair, ATVs, home alarm, metal detectors, etc.) or Absorption Glass Mat Batteries can be reconditioned or recycled into new products. Collection services are available at most automotive stores, landfills, transfer stations, and service stations.
The Rechargeable Battery Recycling Corporation (RBRC), a nonprofit public service, targets four kinds of rechargeable batteries for recycling: nickel-cadmium (NiCad), nickel metal hydride (NiMH), lithium ion (Li-Ion), and small-sealed lead. Visit their website http://www.call2recycle.org/ to find recycling locations near you. 
The rule of thumb is that most rechargeable batteries are recyclable. Look for the RBRC logo or the standard recycling logo to know if your battery is recyclable. The US government states it is safe to dispose of alkaline and other non-rechargeable batteries with the household garbage. If you are concerned about the environmental effects, then it is time to switch to rechargeable batteries. Rechargeable batteries can be used over and over again, then recycled. You can learn more about battery disposal at the EPA website. Contact Zbattery.com at 1-800-624-8681 or sales@zbattery.com to learn what rechargeable battery options are ideal for your application.

Friday, January 13, 2017

Memory Effect - What it is and what you can do about it

Memory effect isn't as big an issue as it used to be, but we published an article on the topic at Zbattery.com and I'm republishing it here:

What's the scoop on the memory effect in rechargeable batteries? Is it true?
Is it worth buying rechargeable batteries?

Almost anyone who uses rechargeable batteries has heard of the memory effect problem. For those who have not heard of this problem, it is commonly believed that when rechargeable batteries are not fully discharged between charge cycles that they remember the shortened cycle and are thus reduced in capacity (length of use per charge). This problem was very common with rechargeable batteries several years ago. With improvements in batteries and charging technology this 'memory effect' is becoming a thing of the past.

Little known facts:
* 'Memory Effect' is the common term used to replace the more accurate term 'Voltage Depression.'
* Voltage Depression is more a problem with incorrect charging than a battery problem.
* Voltage Depression does not necessarily permanently damage a battery. It can most likely be corrected by fully charging and discharging the battery.
* Voltage Depression ('Memory Effect') is often incorrectly used to explain low battery capacity that should be attributed to other problems, such as inadequate charging, overcharge, or exposure to high temperatures.
* Voltage Depression can be affected by the discharge rate of a battery. Generally speaking, the depth of discharge will be less on discharges at the higher rates. This increases the capacity loss as less of the active material in the battery is cycled.
* Voltage Depression occurs primarily in NiCad batteries. NiMH batteries are almost never affected and Li-Ion batteries are minutely affected.

What else happens to NiCad cells where memory effect is blamed?

*Overcharging cells that are near the end of their overall life and their voltage is naturally low. No amount of charging will fix this and the battery needs to be replaced.
*Diminished capacity due to long storage or non-use.  This can sometimes be remedied by a number of deep discharges.  This has been shown to recover 70% or more of the cell's original capacity.  If the cell has been sitting for too long and the energy has been depleted it may not be possible to recover any capacity.

So how can you maximize the use of your rechargeable batteries? Here are a few steps to take to get the most use out of your batteries:

1. Invest in a good charger. NiMH batteries should not be charged in a NiCad charger unless the charger is specifically made for both chemistries. There are cheap chargers and there are expensive chargers. Make sure the charger you get has good reviews and is well made. Chargers with micro-controller chips are usually the best choice.
2. When charging your batteries occasionally discharge them fully before recharging them. This is especially helpful to NiCad batteries. Be careful not to discharge too deeply. (Less than 1v per cell for NiCad and NiMH. E.g., a 3.6v pack to no less than 3v.) Discharging to absolute zero will make your battery useless in just a few cycles. It's best if you have a charger with a conditioner that will cycle the battery for you.
3. Be sure to store your batteries properly. Do not leave your batteries in a hot car, or in humid conditions. The best storage conditions are a cool, dry place. The refrigerator is fine if you stick in a packet of silica gel with your batteries in a sealed bag to keep them dry. It is a good idea to charge your NiCad or NiMH batteries fully before use if they have been in storage.
4. Most cordless phones use NiCad batteries. To maximize your cordless phone battery life, make sure to leave your phone off the base every once in a while until it is dead. Then leave it on the base until it is fully charged. You should leave your phone on the base for at least 24 hours to charge it fully.

There is no need to avoid rechargeable batteries. They can save you significant amounts of money over time. Don't be scared off by the 'memory effect'. It is easily manageable if it ever occurs.

Thursday, January 12, 2017

How to Make a Lemon Battery

I'm continuing posting articles from the ZBattery.com website. A lemon battery is great for understanding battery concepts.

The process shown here uses a lemon, copper in the form of a penny, and zinc in the form of a drywall anchor. Although neither of these metal items is pure they have enough copper and zinc on their surfaces to work, and they are readily available items anyone can find.

Simply insert the penny and drywall anchor into the lemon as shown. These become your positive and negative terminals.

When hooked to a volt meter, as shown, the cell measures 0.4V. What is happening is a chemical reaction at the copper along with a chemical reaction with the zinc in the lemon acid. So there are 2 reactions working together and each one is called a “half-reaction”. Each set of metals in electrolyte (lemon juice in this example) is a single cell. As long as the lemon is in one piece and the metals are not touching, we have 1 battery cell.

Although the lemon battery shows voltage the current is far too low to support even the simplest current demands. To find out how to increase the current to be able to power for example a light bulb, or what chemical reactions are happening inside the cell, keep reading. If however, all you want to do is make a lemon cell, you can stop reading.

Here are the reactions in a lemon cell:
With the zinc: Zn → Zn2+ + 2 e-
At the copper: 2H++ 2e- → H2

What we want a battery to do is have electrons to flow through a wire from which we can utilize to power things. In each of the reactions in the lemon cell, the e-minus indicates electrons that are removed from the zinc to make a zinc ion and these electrons go over to the copper where they take hydrogen ions and make dihydrogen. All chemical cells work in a similar way. Other metals and electrolytes can be used, but one-half of the half-reactions will create an ion and the other half will reduce an ion. In our lemon cell, these ions will be flowing through the electrolyte (the lemon's acid) while the electrons are flowing through the wire on our voltmeter. It happens spontaneously if the circuit is complete but the reaction stops almost completely when ions cannot be made because no electrons are flowing through the wire.

Thus, any chemical reaction creating an ion that can be coupled via ion transfer with another reaction that reduces an ion can create a battery cell. The potential difference in the ion creation/ion reduction determines the amount of power the cell will have. Dissimilar metals are ideal for this, and there are also some other non-metal materials that can do the same thing. That’s why there are a number of different kinds of battery cells. Each cell has different reactions which have different properties; so we can apply the right properties as required to get the job done.

You don’t see too many copper-zinc-lemon acid batteries in the world actually powering anything. So let’s look at our lemon cell again. What properties does it have that we would want to use it in our test? It’s got common materials that are easy to get and put together. That’s it. Well, actually that and it makes a lovely twist in an after-test refreshment (remove the metal parts for best results). But a lemon cell doesn’t deliver a lot of current, and the voltage is rather low compared to other battery cells even when it is at its maximum possible voltage. In fact, if you look around the internet you’ll find a number of people that made lemon cells with voltages higher than 0.4V. Many of them got 0.8V or higher. Looking at the possible differences in these tests can give us more insight into the world of batteries. So what are they doing that we aren’t?

Maybe they use bigger lemons? No, that's not the reason, and I’ll explain why. We can determine just how high the voltage in a lemon can get. We can even determine the theoretical voltage of any cell by looking at the half-reactions and the differences in their potentials. Chemists have made tables with values for different metals and materials. Looking at the tables we can theoretically make a battery cell up to about 6V using different materials. And the highest theoretical voltage for a cell using water-based electrolyte is a little over 2V. The theoretical max is about 1.1V for a lemon cell. So that’s the highest possible voltage you’ll see in a lemon cell and factors that affect the voltage will be the purity of the materials, both metals and electrolyte, and placement (construction). Maximizing the reaction is the key to the highest possible voltage. Maximizing the reaction is what the other lemon battery experimenters were doing to get a higher voltage. What we could do to get better voltage is to wait for the materials to settle in and have the greatest surface area available for the reaction, use more pure metals, or perhaps break up the inside of the lemon to get the electrolyte to flow better (or maybe some lemons are better than others).

So doesn’t lemon size matter? If we had a lemon as big as a truck and sheets of pure copper and zinc the size of picture windows, wouldn’t the voltage be even a little higher? Nope; the best you’ll see is still 1.1V. But aren’t there batteries, like powertool batteries or car batteries that are higher than 6V? There are. That’s the difference between a battery and a cell. If cells are attached to each other in series, their voltages add together. Put those in-series cells together in one container and you have a battery. So if we get 100 lemons and 100 pennies and 100 drywall anchors we could put each cell together in a row, each with ones drywall anchor hooked to the next one’s penny until they are all hooked together, except the first one’s penny and the last one’s drywall anchor. If we check the voltage of this chain at that first penny and last anchor, we could theoretically have 100 x 1.1V, or 110V! Wow, that’s like house plug voltage! Couldn’t that be dangerous? No, not really. Hooking all those lemon cells together adds voltage, but not current. And the current delivered by a lemon battery is tiny, as will be shown in a moment.

There is another way to hook the cells together; in parallel. When we put our 100 cells in a row, but this time we hook all the pennies together and all the drywall anchors together the voltage would stay at 1.1V. So what good did all that slicing and poking do if all we get is the same voltage we started with? We got capacity. It’s just a little harder to see. If we ran our lemon cell down, using a device that ran on less than a volt, and measured how much energy we got out of it before it went dead, we could call it “1 lemon worth of energy”. Our 100-lemon battery hooked in parallel would also run that 1-volt device, but now we can run it 100 times as long (all things being equal) extracting all 100 lemons worth of energy. This is, in effect, making a bigger single cell. That truck size lemon may have had only 1V too, but it would run for a very, very long time. But there is something else putting together those lemons in parallel would do for us. Let’s look at an example to demonstrate the power of a parallel connection. Can our lemon battery light a 1V light bulb? A bulb for a Mag Solitaire flashlight (it runs on 1 AAA battery) will glow with 1V, and even a little less. However, even if we get the full 1.1V out of our lemon battery, it won’t do anything at all to Solitaire bulb. The reason is that the battery is pushing enough voltage through the bulb, but the bulb is trying to get more amperage from the battery than it can supply. Another way to say it is “the big hose is full of water, but the water just isn’t moving”. However, with enough lemons in parallel, or with that truck-sized lemon, we’ll have no trouble getting that flashlight bulb to light. It’s just a matter of getting enough reaction going to supply the electron needs of a lit bulb.

Wednesday, January 11, 2017

How High Impedance Affects Rechargeable Batteries

Newer, more advanced battery analyzers like the Maha MH-C9000 test more than just the battery capacity. If a battery is unable to maintain a load the Maha MH-C9000 returns a result "HIGH" which stands for High Impedance.
What is high impedance? High impedance is another term for "high internal resistance". This means with age or poor maintenance, a rechargeable battery develops a high internal resistance causing the battery to collapse with heavy current demands. So, while the battery may show a 'full charge' on a volt meter and an acceptable capacity level on an analyzer, when put to the test the battery is not able to sustain the current draw for the application causing a low battery indicator. 
Are all rechargeable chemistries affected by high impedance? Yes, all rechargeable chemistries are affected by high impedance, but not in the same way. NiCad has the lowest starting internal resistance of common rechargeable chemistries, and after a hundred uses it may still maintain a low internal resistance. NiMH batteries start with a higher internal resistance and will develop higher resistance quicker than NiCad batteries, which is why most NiMH batteries have fewer charges available than a NiCad battery. Li-Ion batteries are between NiCad and NiMH, however due to the chemical construction of Li-Ion cells, cell oxidation causes irreversible high resistance with age. This is true for Li-Ion whether they are used or not.
Can high impedance be reversed? Once high impedance reaches a critical level in a rechargeable cell it is almost impossible to recover the cell to a highly useful state. Although with proper reconditioning, NiCad batteries (and in some cases Lead Acid batteries) may recover to a usable state for a brief period. NiCad batteries can be reconditioned with chargers designed to provide a reconditioning cycle.

Tuesday, January 10, 2017

Series and Parallel Connections


One of our most popular articles on the Zbattery website is on series and parallel connections between batteries. I'll reproduce it here:

We frequently get asked the question, "How am I supposed to connect my battery if I want to double the capacity but not the voltage?", or similar questions. It can be confusing if you've never done it, but hopefully this'll make it simpler. Be sure to read the important notes at the bottom to protect yourself from damaging any equipment! 

Connecting in Series: When connecting your batteries in Series you are doubling the voltage while maintaining the same capacity rating (amp hours). This might be used in a scooter, Power Wheels kids vehicle, or other applications. Just use a jumper wire between the negative of the first battery and the positive of the second battery. Run your positive wire off of the open connector from the first battery and your negative off of the open connector on your second battery.



Connecting in Parallel: When connecting in Parallel you are doubling the capacity (amp hours) of the battery while maintaining the voltage of one of the individual batteries. This would be used in applications such as laptop batteries, some scooters, some ups backups, etc. Use a jumper wire between the positives of both batteries and another jumper wire between the negatives of both batteries. Connect your positive and negative wires to the same battery to run to your application.



Important notes: When connecting batteries in a pack there are some important things to keep in mind - - Find out the requirements of your application. For example: Don't double the capacity on your Power Wheels vehicle if you're not supposed to...you could burn up the engine. Follow the recommended guidelines for your application. - Don't use two different chemistries when connecting a pack. Usually the voltages will be different, but more importantly the charge rates will be different and the capacities may be different, thus resulting in a shortened life span. - Try to match capacities as much as possible. When connecting batteries in a pack you should try to match the capacities as much as possible to avoid discharging one battery quicker than another. A pack operates at a combined voltage so your one cell that discharges quicker will likely discharge deeper than it may be able to recover from.


There isn't much to add. Although if any questions come up, which can be posted below, I'll edit this post and answer them if need be.

Monday, January 9, 2017

Another Cobalt article and Market trends

It was mentioned a few months ago here on the Zbattery blog that the Cobalt mines that allow us to build li-ion batteries are manned by independent workers. These workers take great risks to their very lives and surely to their health, but all that they ask of you is that you don't take this mining opportunity away from them. Because even with the risk borne in this endeavor, it's the least risky job they have available.

Truly, for these men, taking them out of the frying pan would be to put them into a blast furnace.

But we are finding the problems for these men are getting better, not worse, by doing nothing. As demand for cobalt goes up, so does the price they get for it. Now one might say that only the middle-men will reap the benefits of higher prices - but this will only happen if the independent miners have to hide their work and cannot sell the products of their labor openly to multiple bidders.

So the next time the Washington Post casts their evil eye toward independent miners as they keep repeatedly doing, it will not only hurt the independent miner. It will hurt you to in the form of higher prices.

And this brings up the great opportunity for investing in lithium and cobalt. These are sure to both raise in price as demand skyrockets.

And with a mind-boggling 12 battery gigafactories on the books globally, we’re looking at a supply and demand equation that is overwhelming in favor of the new lithium miner. It’s not only Tesla: LG Chem (OTC:LGCEY), Foxconn, BYD (OCTPK:BYDDY) and Boston Power are all building new battery factories, too—among others. Imagine the manufacturing capacity here that requires monumental amounts of lithium and cobalt that we simply won’t have.

Can the price stay low enough for BEVs to be a market success? If the price of materials goes too high, the batteries will continue to hinder sales. And it will raise the price for li-ion and LiFePO4 and every other lithium chemistry, not to mention the market for grid batteries using lithium chemistries.

Although in the grid market might have other interesting changes because it has the most non-lithium based chemistries available. So look for Vanadium and Lead to continue to raise in the future despite the rush to lithium.